- [Brad] It's lunchtime, and this is Brad Anderson's Lunch Break. (jaunty music) Two of my favorite things about Microsoft are the smart people that constantly visit campus, and the great fleet of shuttles. Wherever I can, I try to take advantage of both of these things, and grab lunch with some of the tech industry's best and brightest. (jaunty music) Today, I'll finish talking with Dr. Nicole Forsgren, the CEO and Chief Scientist at DORA. In your experience consulting with companies, is the issue in terms of getting more diversity inside an organization, is it a pipeline problem or a workplace problem? Do they research on that? - Do you wanna hear this answer? - Yeah. - It's not a fun answer. - Let's have it. - Hey camera, it's not a pipeline problem. We suck at this. - As an industry. - They're gonna edit this out. As a whole industry, it's not a pipeline problem, since the 80's, we have half the number of women in tech, or half the proportion-- - As a percentage. - As a percentage. We suck at this. - Yep, and you take a look now in college, we take a look at the who's coming out, and we still don't have the representation that we want. - We have more women-- - in the universities. - Graduating from college than we had before. - Correct. - We have more women graduating in tech than we had before. And yet 10 years post graduation, we have women leaving in droves. - So what's the biggest thing that we can do as leaders in the industry to stop this? - Well then not just as leaders, as peers, right? - Fair, it's a great point. - I hesitate just a bit to answer and many times if you ask women, so many of us will hesitate to answer because we don't wanna be the representatives for women. - I got the idea. - So I'll do my best right now, and this isn't my area of expertise as a researcher, as a PhD, but so much of the research points to the fact that the culture sucks, right? That's the challenge. I would encourage anyone who's listening or watching Google it, how can I be an ally? - Yeah. - How can I be an ally to women in tech, to under represented groups in tech, one of the biggest things that has hit my radar recently, there's a difference between having a mentor and having a sponsor. - Correct, very different. - Right? - Yeah. - So find someone and be a sponsor. - Yeah, totally. - That can be huge, stand up for someone, if someone, asks for something or says something, don't dismiss it because asking for something or saying something, takes incredible amount of-- - Courage. - Courage, it really does. - I think you know your point about really, no matter who you are, looking at the culture and is the culture inclusive, and-- - I love that you, I don't wanna interrupt, but I'm going to because I love that you used that word. Because there's diverse and there's inclusive, and they're different things. - And I think an inclusive environment then breeds more diversity. - Yes, absolutely. - So it's one of the things, and I'll tell ya, we focus on this a lot because you have introverts, you have extroverts, you have people who have got 20 years of experience, somebody just out of college, that's diversity I wanna have on my team. You have to have an inclusive environment that understands, embraces, and accentuates and listens to all points of view. - Yes, and that's important and I like, I'm gonna call a little bit of bull (beep) right now right? Diversity of thought and diversity of background is super important, right? So, don't just hire everybody outta the same university, and have diversity of educational experiences, diversity of background, diversity of everything, but don't use that as your excuse. Don't be like, oh, we have our own special brand of diversity. Yes, I'm sure you do, keep trying harder. Keep doing more. - [Brad] It's constant, it's continuous. - If you wanna be like, super capitalistic about it, we find so much research everywhere showing that diversity of background, diversity of thought, diversity of gender, diversity of race, diversity of all the things, leads to better outcomes. - Oh, absolutely. - Customer satisfaction, profit, revenue, all the things. You make better products, you build better software, you get better outcomes. It's worth the investment. - So you go back to 10 years ago, when someone's getting ready to be made a vice president, there was this psychoanalysis that went on, there would be this big book delivered on everybody that was being considered to be vice president. My feedback was Brad doesn't use conflict. What do you mean I don't use conflict? - Oh interesting. - Yeah. And it was interesting, I actually had one of my direct reports, I asked him about it, I said, will you help me understand this? What it came down to is I would race to try to get alignment to move on to the next problem, rather than letting the room ruminate longer on a problem, and let conflict exist in the room longer. That was one of the biggest learnings I had in my career was how to let that happen. 'Cause you get a better outcome, because there's more discussion, there's more debate, and you get a more refined answer. - Okay, I'm gonna circle this back. Because you know what? Conflict, "conflict", everyone thinks conflict's such a dirty word. - Correct, it has a connotation, but does not mean that. - That's the value of diversity. - That's a great way-- - That's where-- - To say it. It's been fun to drive around, we gotta make sure we do this again. - We should. Thanks so much. - Thanks so much Nicole. It's been great. See ya the next time. Next time, on Brad Anderson's Lunch Break. So what's with all the nerve racking, a big keynote, or testifying in front of the Senate? - [John] Probably the Senate. - That's what I would think too. - When you're 15 feet from Hillary Clinton. - Under oath. - Ted Kennedy, it's, it can be somewhat overwhelming. (jaunty music)
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