Brad Anderson's Lunch Break s8 e4 Raja Ukil, SVP & CIO, Wipro (Part 2)

- [Brad] It's lunchtime, and this is Brad Anderson's Lunch Break. Here in Redmond, we're visited by some of the smartest people on the planet pretty much every day. Every chance I get, I meet up with them for lunch. (cheerful music) Today I wrap up my conversation with Raja Ukil, the Senior Vice President and CIO at the massive Indian IT company Wipro. I saw a story about how there was a big change in the tax structure in India. How did you leverage technology and the skills of your organization to help lead your company through that? - [Raja] If you had followed what the Indian government was doing, they pushed the change through very quickly, even though they were not ready. So it was very well our time. We as an organization sat down, let's put all hands on the deck, let's all assemble and do it like a workshop more. And I don't want anybody to clarify things on email or phone calls or anything else. Right, it has to be then and there. And it was learning for us, right, it was not a thing which existed in the past. - You have to innovate to adjust. - [Raja] We just finished the project, start to finish, all in nineteen days, and we were compliant on day one. - Wow, so what did you personally, what was the biggest challenge you as the leader had to go drive or change in the company? Do it in nineteen days? - I think you will get the technology. My team over the years, because we do things fast, have reoriented to think that way, right? The only thing is, in an organization, minds are changed. There is something coming in, think of the group which does invoicing for our customers. It's a change for them. They do invoicing globally for all our customers. And you're talking about thirty-first, you are doing it in a particular way, and on first, you are doing it in a particular way, and you had all of nineteen days when the solution was not ready to train them. I think the leadership and all the team members cross, put their hands up, but I have never seen that happen in many projects in many organizations. I think that was the key to success. Obviously, all people like us, our CFO, et cetera, was to come in and motivate them every one hour, and say, "The team did a good job." - [Brad] We're gonna play a game called This or That. - [Raja] Okay. - [Brad] I'm gonna give you two topics and I'm gonna read you some descriptions, and then you tell me which one of the two things I'm describing, is it explaining cricket to somebody in the U.S., or trying to teach a dog calculus? You can tell they want to understand what you're saying but it's obvious they have no idea what's going on. - It's teaching a dog calculus. - It could actually be both. (both laughing) Using food as a motivator doesn't help very much. - This is probably cricket, explaining. - The only part of the conversation they really care about is the ball. - This is cricket, yeah. - Okay, they have no idea what to do with the information once the conversation's over. - This is definitely cricket. - [Brad] One of the things I read one time that you had said is you talked about your migration to Office 365 was done just in this incredibly smooth way that your users didn't even recognize that there had been a change even though they saw the new functionality. What advice would you give anyone who's looking at that move to Office 365, but they're hesitating? What advice would you give them? - Technically, it's not a big deal. It's super simple. Things like this, the new wave solutions, the ones from Microsoft are easy to remove. If you do planning well and focus on user adoption, because the users are getting more than what they used to get, and how do you handle that is the most critical piece. I advise my peers that if this is what your business wants, if this is what your users do, then try it out. It's okay to fail on a small scale. - That's a growth mindset as well. - Experiment with one or two people, you can experiment with five, ten thousand people, and once you're satisfied, fine-tune it, and then go boom. - Just go do it, experiment, learn, and then see how you roll it out broadly. - And, in that recess, wear a hat off an end user, and see what disruption it is causing him or her. - Yeah, get your hands into it. - If you can eliminate that disruption, then you're home. - One thing I've heard you say is, there's a million things that IT could do, but IT has to focus on things that matter. What are those things that matter right now, to you? - Honestly, I think all the million things matter. So what are trying to do, IT should not become a bottle-neck for doing things and achieving things faster. If you talk to any CIO around the world, they will say that they is stock in the API problem correction. That's one of the things which is critical to us. Our businesses typically are anywhere between one and a half billion to two billion, and "one size fits all" will not work across acquisitions who have different processes, et cetera. But the second thing we believe, the future of work, IT work, will be crowdsourced. So my job as a CIO is to enable the large organization to participate in a structured way and solve their own problems. Today, that's my priority. - [ Brad] One thing that really stands out about your company is this commitment to be a good citizen on the planet. I mean, you guys are listed as one of the world's most ethical companies, you're rated number one in India in sustainability, you've been honored for ethical corporate governance, you're recognized all over the world for diversity and disability hiring. It's a long list. What is the corporate culture that enabled you to be so incredibly strong in these areas? - It essentially stems from our core value system, which was articulated by our Chairman when he started the company, and it flows through down from the CEO to all the employees. We have always tried to be diverse, inclusive, give back to society, and today I'm proud to say that every dollar we own, of all descents, goes back to charity. - Wow, I did not know that. - Our Chairman, who is the majority share holder, has pledged forty percent of-- - Imagine how different the world would be if others followed your example. - For our vision of the company, we were more Indian in our mindset, as we started growing, we recognized the need to be more global and more inclusive. So if you look at, we include diversity, our definition is gender diversity, nationality, underprivileged. - Diversity in its broadest terms. - Yeah, and also people with disabilities. So we hire across the spectrum. Leaders are measured on how diverse they are in their team. Because honestly, it's not a question of, you go to press, you get recognized, which is why you do it. - But it is imperative. - It's a business imperative. Secondly, I think you get very inclusive views. - If you're trying to design products for the world, how can you do it if you don't have the world as broadly represented internally as you can? - Yeah, absolutely. Honestly, whatever we do, ultimately we are in business, we are responsible towards society, and we do our best to live up to it. - [Brad] That's awesome. Great to talk with you. - [Raja] Absolutely, same to you. - I look forward to this continued partnership. Let's do this again, right? Thanks, Raja. Next time on Brad Anderson's Lunch Break. So Terry, you've had an incredibly long, historic career at Microsoft. - Long's probably a good adjective, sure. - So I think all of that leads to this question. What's it like to be my new boss? (both laughing) - [Terry] I went to my bosses and said, "We need a website," and they're like, "No. We don't know what that is." And so we started a company. (cheerful music)

Brad Anderson's Lunch Break s7 e9 Dr. Nicole Forsgren, CEO, DORA

- [Brad] It's lunch time, and this is Brad Anderson's Lunch Break. Two of my favorite things about Microsoft are the smart people that constantly visit campus and the great fleet of shuttles. Whenever I can I try to take advantage of both of these things, and grab lunch with some of the tech industry's best and brightest. Today I'm driving around with Dr. Nicole Forsgren, a researcher, DevOps expert, and CEO and Chief Scientist at DORA. (jaunty music) - Hey - [Brad] How's it goin', Nicole? - I'm good. Sweet minivan. - You know, I wanted to harken back to the early days when we needed to have a minivan in order to put our kids in it. It's like a walk down memory lane here for me. In software, we're all about data and we all use data to make decisions, and you've brought this uncanny academic rigor to how you use data. In fact, you have so much passion you formed your own company. So tell us a little bit about the company, your background and this passion on data. - Sure. So DORA is DevOps Research and Assessment. We've been doing research looking at how organizations can use so many fantastic capabilities to drive improvement in their ability to make software with both speed and stability. That's really the key central component in helping organizations perform amazingly well. And I say perform, so that's profitability, productivity, market share. - Yeah so it's both internal and external because a big part of performing is employee satisfaction, employee passion. - Also, decreasing employee pain, decreasing burnout. - Because we talk about this in-depth DevOps approach to IT and to Dev. How does that impact morale? - When we study DevOps or technology transformation we take kind of a holistic approach and it includes culture, it includes technology, it includes Agile in measurements, and the piece in Agile includes how you develop software and team experimentation. And so the way it affects morale and team culture is we see greater communication, greater information flow, risks are shared, novelty is encouraged and implemented, morale is improved, and that ends up feeding through and having a positive impact on the entire organization's performance. For so long, have you heard before, 'IT's a cost center, IT's a cost center,' - That's definitely transitioned but that's the way it's been talked about for years. I'm tired of it. - Right? Seriously. But what we find is that it's really an investment. If you see it and if you view it as an investment it pays back dividends tenfold, because it makes your technology better. It makes your employees better. It makes your employees happier. It delivers value to your business. Again, profitability, productivity, market share. - [Brad] What's the most common pitfall organizations fall into in this area? - So there, I think there are a couple. So one is not measuring the things that matter. Right, so we have, sometimes it's just local optimizations. Right, sometimes people are like 'I'm gonna do CI, Continuous Integration, or I'm gonna do Continuous Delivery, because Continuous Delivery,' and then they just get spun up on something. Right? Or they'll measure something because it's convenient, or easy, and then it shows up on a report and that's all they pay attention to. And I'm sure you've seen that. - Oh, a hundred times, and then there are even things that I've asked to be measured and then realized it was the wrong things. - Which is fine, because it's continuous improvement, continuous learning, so then you could still keep it if you want, but at least pull it off the report. - Yeah, but start measuring, and then you're gonna realize that you're gonna get better. Just the numbers, when you first start doing the measurement the numbers are gonna be dirty, they're not gonna be clean. - Realize the power of an honest baseline. If it's bad, that's even better because you have nowhere to go but up. - At least you got a place to start from. That has been this journey, I think, that many of us have gone through. That it is all about getting started and then constantly learning, constantly getting better, constantly refining, but you gotta start. - And it gives you something to talk about and communicate about. Suddenly, if you're on a different team, I can talk to you about it. And, if I think your performance or your metrics or something sucks, that's okay because I have something to talk about instead of yelling at you, we can yell about the thing. - That makes it tangible and real. You can have a conversation and then say 'Okay, now how are we gonna go get better on this?' - Exactly - Next time on Brad Anderson's Lunch Break: - If you wanna be super capitalistic about it, we find so much research everywhere showing that diversity of background, diversity of thought, diversity of gender, diversity of race, diversity of all the things leads to better outcomes. You make better products, you build better software, you get better outcomes. It's worth the investment. (jaunty music)

Brad Anderson's Lunch Break s7 e5 Peggy Johnson, EVP Business Development, Microsoft

- [Brad] It's lunchtime, and this is Brad Anderson's Lunch Break. (playful music) Two of my favorite things about Microsoft are the smart people that constantly visit campus, and the great fleet of shuttles. Whenever I can, I try to take advantage of both of these things, and grab lunch with some of the tech industry's best and brightest. Today I'll drive around with Microsoft's own Executive Vice President of Business Development, Peggy Johnson. (jaunty music) Hello Peggy. - Hey Brad, how are you? - Really good, thank you for making time today. - Sure. - Awesome. - Nice wheels. - You know, nothin' but the best for the SLT. (laughing) - I didn't take you for a minivan guy. - Well you know, I wonder if should actually get one of the security vans to take you around in, you know, I mean this is like precious cargo here. Three years at Microsoft now? - Almost three years. - And Sonti's first hire, first new member of the SLT. - Yes, it's been fun. - So three years, I mean, partnerships, acquisitions, relationships, occasionally sleep, you know. (laughing) You've accomplished lifetimes worth of work in three years. So you and I both studied engineering in college. - Yes. - Okay. - Well, I lived in San Diego, and it's a Navy town. So most of the dream jobs somehow were-- - Military. - Associated with the military, so I, my first job was at General Electric, working on anti-submarine warfare for surface ships. - Oh, so like light stuff. - Yeah. (laughing) - So what was the most intriguing part about that job? - Well it was at the time when that book, Hunt for Red October was out, - Oh yeah, Clancy's first, second book I guess, right? - Yes, exactly. And so it was very much like that. - Wow. - We were building a system to listen in to what they call the signatures of the submarines, and you'd have to identify if they were a threat or friendly, and super exciting stuff, because the book very much mimicked what we were doing at work. - So what was it called in the movie, were you working on the Caterpillar Drive or what was that called? (laughing) - Something along those lines, and, I should probably not talk any more since I had a Top Secret - Oh it's classified! - clearance at that time. - I don't want you to have to kill me, for sure. - But I do get right and left mixed up, and I get port and starboard mixed up, - Do you really? - So hopefully, yeah all the time, and so I'm hoping that no one ever has to launch those missiles, I don't want 'em to go off the wrong side. - [Brad] Alright, so let's play a little game of this or that. - [Peggy] Okay. (laughs) - So I'm gonna give you a phrase and you're gonna tell me which one of the things applies. - Okay. - So the two topics, or the two things you can select from are, being a new hire at Microsoft, - Okay. - Or building a nuclear bomb. Okay, you have experience in both. (laughing) At first, everyone is way busier than you expected. - Definitely a new employee at Microsoft. - Okay, yep. You don't wanna make a really big mistake on your first day. - Nuclear bomb. - Okay. Everyone's using acronyms that make no sense at all. - Definitely being a new employee at Microsoft. I still, almost three years in, I still don't know some of those acronyms. - The opportunity to change the world is overwhelming. - Being a new employee at Microsoft. - The work then you do in mergers and acquisitions, is that you're always looking ahead. What's a piece of technology right now that you know we're going to be using in the future that maybe isn't on the radar of people today? - Well certainly it is in the realm of artificial intelligence. But, specifically, I think this idea of machine reading comprehension, which is the focus of a company that we just acquired called Maluuba. Basically, when I first met them, they showed us how they can ingest a page of text, they happened to be a page of Harry Potter, and not only read the words and define the words, but comprehend what was going on. That is going to open up all sorts of opportunities for us, when you have tech that can comprehend what's going on in reams and reams of documents. For instance, in the legal field, if you could just ask a question about all of the contracts that you've ever done-- - So you said the first demo you saw of Maluuba was a Harry Potter page? - Yes. - So you know what, I'm dying to ask the question. Were they able to get the intent? Did they know Harry Potter was gonna die? (laughing) You know in book seven? - It wasn't that particular page, but it was amazing. - You spent a lot of time in Silicon Valley. - Yes. - And there's a lot of time there in, helping Silicon Valley understand more about what Microsoft is doing, and I'm curious, what have you seen in changes as you interact with Silicon Valley, and then how does that enable Microsoft to deliver better value? - Well, first and foremost, we're part of the conversation, again. We're at the table. They think of us when they have interesting new technologies. They know we might be interested. We're getting those calls. We also have our new Microsoft Ventures arm, which has allowed us to have a new fresh perspective of the startup community in Silicon Valley. We're in there, we are keeping pace, we're exceeding them in many areas, so they're interested in us, they're interested in our tech, and understanding where they can take our tech, and vice versa. So, super exciting times just to be back in the Valley. - Talking about startups here, we're talking about investments, I find that there's often some really strange startup names. I wanna give you some names, and some are real startups, and some are made up. - Okay. - You tell me which is which. - Okay. - Alright, the first one is Jigglu, J-I-G-G-L-U. - No way, that's gotta be made up. - That is an accurate name, it's an honest name of a startup. - Who would name their startup that? (laughs) - I don't know, there's gotta be a great backstory behind that somewhere. The next one is Fashism. - Like facism? - Yep, exactly. - I would say no, that's gotta be made up. - That's a real one too. They're actually-- - How will they get funded? - Ashton Kutcher is one of the investors! (laughing) Alright, next one. PajamaZoom. (laughing) - Now it's a trick. I feel like I should say that's a real one. - That one's a fake one. (laughing) - KoalaSafe, koala the animal, KoalaSafe. - That sounds real. - That's a real one, ding ding ding ding. - Yes, yes, whoo. One out of four. - And the next one is Wiggli, W-I-G-G-L-I. - That is a real one. - That's a fake. - Oh! (laughing) - Homestar Runner - Homestar Runner. That's a real one. - Ding ding ding ding ding. Alright, last one. CreditDonkey. (laughing) That's fake. - It's a true one, who would name their company that? But you know? (laughing) CreditDonkey. Next time on Brad Anderson's Lunch Break, - Whenever I tried to be something I wasn't, the outcome wasn't very good and so, I had a boss at one point who said, why don't you just be yourself, and that was sort of like, the turning point of my career. - Not just like as a skill, but an endorsed skill. - Hamsters? - How'd you know that? - I have, (laughing) - How good much you be at paranormal romance for somebody else to endorse that? (jaunty music)

Brad Anderson's Lunch Break s7 e4 Ben Kepes, Public cloud analyst (Part 2)

- [Brad] It's lunch time, and this is Brad Anderson's Lunch Break. Two of my favorite things about Microsoft are the smart people that constantly visit campus, and the great fleet of shuttles. Wherever I can I try to take advantage of both of these things, and grab lunch with some of the tech industry's best and brightest. (upbeat music) Today I'll wrap up my conversation with Cloud expert and New Zealand's finest, Ben Kepes. Out of all of those hobbies, what's your favorite? - To be honest, running is my thing. I've got two sons, my eldest son is about 17, and he's also a runner, so we head out and do ultra marathons together. So there's nothing better than hanging with my kids. - So what's the most miles you've logged in a single day? - So I've actually got a 100 mile race coming up, in about 10 days, so that will be my longest race to date. Previously I've done 100km. (light swing music) - So why did we have to send Uber to bring you here today? - Well I actually did suggest that we go out for a run, but you weren't up for it! - I was chicken, I was totally chicken on it, because I knew I couldn't talk and run at the same time. - Well who needs to talk? (laughs) We could run slow. - You know, one of the really big pivots that I've seen in the last year, is the focus that IT is placing on the end user experience is dramatically greater than what it was in the past. - Totally, and that's a generational thing. At the end of the day, if you're a millennial going into the work force, and you've spent your life on Instagram or Snapchat, or Facebook or whatever. You're not gonna use those lengthy enterprise systems that are just horrendous. - [Brad] A couple of years ago we really focused our design on how do we develop an environment that IT can deliver that is loved by users, and trusted by IT. And doing both is really hard. - It totally is, and there's this tension there, right? And the reality is, you need give people like a sliding scale, you want to give people that optionality, to go all in on the user love, but that's gonna cause more IT pain, if that's their choice for them. Or the other way, as an organization, I guess Microsoft needs to think about what is the line at which you won't go? - So there's a balance, and every organization is gonna have a different balance on that one. - [Ben] It's funny, I spend my time in analysts' session, sit around with a bunch of analysts who've been in the industry for 50 years or whatever. How many of them have owned products that a billion people use? None. So the reality is, it's all very well to say this is what this vendor should do, this is what this product should do, but at the end of the day, if you've got a billion users to think about, you've actually got a responsibility there. It's not quite as easy as it looks. - I think people would be amazed if they understood the level of the investments that we make on backwards compatibility, and making sure that we don't leave the customers behind. It's a stunning amount of our investment. - For sure. - [Brad] We're gonna play a game that I call "This or That?" So I'll give you two subjects, and I'm gonna read you a list of descriptions, and you tell me which of the subjects it applies to. - Okay. - [Brad] Public cloud, or caffeine? Don't try running a company without a lot of it. (deep breathing) - Caffeine first, but both. - Yeah, I agree. Its benefits and drawbacks are under constant debate. - No, I'm gonna say cloud. - When you first start using it, you have to build up a tolerance, or your system will freak out. - It's an interesting one, isn't it? Really is an interesting one, I think ... I'm gonna go with caffeine. - It's easy to get hooked and start adding it to everything. - Yeah, definitely both. - Now one of the things you related to me is how intriguing and how innovative Azure Stack is, I'd love to get your perspective on Azure Stack. - Yeah, so it's really exciting for me, and for me the reality is there are a lot of purists who say the public cloud is it, and there's no validity to the private cloud. If you were talking to someone in the banking space, or maybe someone in the medical space, or in a particular geography, or someone who's running a cruise ship company, and has boats going out on the high seas, well that abstract kind of idea doesn't really work in practice, because they've got times where they can't, they're not connected. So absolutely hybrid is the reality. I'm super excited about Azure Stack, where you've got something that is the same public cloud, private cloud. You can have interplay between the two, your applications can run on both. That's kind of the future, and I think it's really disrespectful for the pundits who say public cloud is the only way, and private cloud isn't real, because at the end of the day, that doesn't respect the reality for a number of organizations. - Well you know, the next time we're gonna do this I think we're gonna do it in New Zealand, we'll go for a run. - Sure, so you sent me a shuttle. Next time send a Microsoft corporate jet, pick me up in New Zealand, and we'll go do some stuff. - I'll get workin' on that. - Awesome. - Hey, thank you so much. - Thanks, man. - Bye bye, man. - When I first met them they showed us how they can ingest a page of text. It just happened to be a page of Harry Potter. And not only read the words and define the words, but comprehend what was going on. (laughs) But I do get right and left mixed up, and I get port and starboard mixed up. - Do you really? - Yeah, all the time. So I'm hoping that no one ever has to launch those missiles. I don't want them to go up the wrong side. (upbeat music)

Brad Anderson's Lunch Break s7 e3 Ben Kepes, Public cloud analyst

- [Brad] It's lunch time, and this is Brad Anderson's Lunch Break. Two of my favorite things about Microsoft are the smart people that constantly visit campus and the great fleet of shuttles. Whenever I can, I try to take advantage of both of these things and grab lunch with some of the tech industry's best and brightest. This week, I'm meeting up with one of the planet's foremost cloud experts, Ben Kepes. He's also an ultra-marathoner and part-time firefighter. - Hey man, so I ordered an Uber Deluxe. You send me a shuttle? - You know, this is like the top of the line shuttle here at Microsoft. - So you know I come from New Zealand, and not only do we get slow internet speeds, but we get the dodgy car as well. - [Brad] In addition to owning your own industry consulting analyst firm, you write for Computer World, you're one of the leading experts on the cloud, but you also run ultra-marathons and you're a volunteer firefighter? If there's ever a forest fire a hundred miles away, you're the man to call. - You're fun. I was actually a paramedic, - Oh, so you dialed it down a little, you said. - If we have an accident while we're driving, I've got you sorted. (laughing) - [Brad] Okay, so when you consult with businesses that are in the process of modernizing, what are the characteristics of the companies that really are able to make that transition successfully? - Yeah, so like I've already said it's about culture. So the culture being adept probably would change. - I think so many of us overlook that. - Yeah, and it's pretty interesting. I mean, if you look at an organization I find, 'cause I do a lot of consulting with these large organizations. I can walk into an organization and pretty much I can get a sense of what it's like. I look at the torques they use, I look around, I look at simple things like what it's like to get into the building, what it's like, you know, if they've got a receptionist there who's kind of about blocking access to people, you know, those things. - That's old school. - Yeah, it's really those things. And those things, you know, people would say that has nothing to do with my technology adoption. - [Brad] Your company invested in a lot of startups. Okay, so we're gonna play a game that I call Startup Game. Okay, so I'm gonna give you some names some are real startups and some are fake. Okay, so the first one is Thundera. Thunder with an A. Real or make believe? - Fake. - That is a fake one, you got it right. Okay, the next one is Foodler. F-O-O-D-L-E-R. - Yeah, that's gotta be a Sunken Valley true company. - That is a true company. Okay, the next one, WubbaLubDub. - See, that's too many letters for a URL, so that's fake. (laughing) - You are a hundred percent right, and I think your logic is probably right as well. Flingr. - Yeah, now that works, that's true. - That's a fake one. But it could've been a legit name, right? - Yeah. - BlaBlaCar. - I'm pretty sure that's actually a real company. - That is a real company. - But it's a bad URL. - Man, you did, by far, the best anyone's ever done on that game. - There you go. - [Brad] If you were talking to an organization that really is kind of a little bit hesitant to enter into the cloud, start using the cloud, what would be your biggest piece of advice to them? - So I think the first piece of advice is that this is happening. This change is there, you don't have any option. It's kind of this carrot and stick. So the stick is you have no option, you have to change. The carrot is, there's ways that you can damper with this, there's ways that you can do some other little things, and just showing people what you can do with things like, you know, Help EI, when it's in the cloud, for example. Just showing people the value that that unlocks. In a small way, in a discreet part of their business, we'll get them to kind of develop the muscle memory, like it's getting to feel a little bit more comfortable, until they can start moving more or mass into the cloud. - [Brad] You know, one interesting thing I was thinking about as you were talking, you know, we made the decision as we were building what I oversee in Enterprise Mobility and Security, back in 2012 they were going to do it entirely from the cloud. And I remember in 2014, you know, about one out of two customers would tell us, "Hey, I'm not comfortable doing this from the cloud." 2015 it was maybe 20 percent. Now, it's rare that I ever hear an organization say, "Hey, I'm not totally comfortable with my management security coming from the cloud." - You know, it's totally funny. I mean, just the awareness. I've been doing this for, I guess, ten years since the cloud's been around. And four or five years ago, I was at a function, I was introduced to an elected member of parliament in New Zealand, and someone introduced me as this global cloud expert, and this dude said, without a word of light, "You study the weather, do you?" Fast forward to today, only a few years later, and there's no one that doesn't have at least a vague notion about what the cloud is. And it translates into organizations who understand it, are starting to use it, to some extent. And it's the ridge, right? We're kind of midway up the angle of the ridge, and it's only getting lighter. It's the reality. - And there's literally no limit on where this can go. - And it's cool for those of us who have been kind of, you know, saying, "this is the future," for ten years. It's so cool to kind of be vindicated. - [Brad] Next time, on Brad Anderson's Lunch Break: - I think it's really disrespectful for the pandets who say, "Public cloud is the only way and private cloud isn't real." Because at the end of the day, that doesn't respect the reality for a number of organizations.

Brad Anderson's Lunch Break s7 e10 Dr. Nicole Forsgren, CEO, DORA (Part 2)

- [Brad] It's lunchtime, and this is Brad Anderson's Lunch Break. (jaunty music) Two of my favorite things about Microsoft are the smart people that constantly visit campus, and the great fleet of shuttles. Wherever I can, I try to take advantage of both of these things, and grab lunch with some of the tech industry's best and brightest. (jaunty music) Today, I'll finish talking with Dr. Nicole Forsgren, the CEO and Chief Scientist at DORA. In your experience consulting with companies, is the issue in terms of getting more diversity inside an organization, is it a pipeline problem or a workplace problem? Do they research on that? - Do you wanna hear this answer? - Yeah. - It's not a fun answer. - Let's have it. - Hey camera, it's not a pipeline problem. We suck at this. - As an industry. - They're gonna edit this out. As a whole industry, it's not a pipeline problem, since the 80's, we have half the number of women in tech, or half the proportion-- - As a percentage. - As a percentage. We suck at this. - Yep, and you take a look now in college, we take a look at the who's coming out, and we still don't have the representation that we want. - We have more women-- - in the universities. - Graduating from college than we had before. - Correct. - We have more women graduating in tech than we had before. And yet 10 years post graduation, we have women leaving in droves. - So what's the biggest thing that we can do as leaders in the industry to stop this? - Well then not just as leaders, as peers, right? - Fair, it's a great point. - I hesitate just a bit to answer and many times if you ask women, so many of us will hesitate to answer because we don't wanna be the representatives for women. - I got the idea. - So I'll do my best right now, and this isn't my area of expertise as a researcher, as a PhD, but so much of the research points to the fact that the culture sucks, right? That's the challenge. I would encourage anyone who's listening or watching Google it, how can I be an ally? - Yeah. - How can I be an ally to women in tech, to under represented groups in tech, one of the biggest things that has hit my radar recently, there's a difference between having a mentor and having a sponsor. - Correct, very different. - Right? - Yeah. - So find someone and be a sponsor. - Yeah, totally. - That can be huge, stand up for someone, if someone, asks for something or says something, don't dismiss it because asking for something or saying something, takes incredible amount of-- - Courage. - Courage, it really does. - I think you know your point about really, no matter who you are, looking at the culture and is the culture inclusive, and-- - I love that you, I don't wanna interrupt, but I'm going to because I love that you used that word. Because there's diverse and there's inclusive, and they're different things. - And I think an inclusive environment then breeds more diversity. - Yes, absolutely. - So it's one of the things, and I'll tell ya, we focus on this a lot because you have introverts, you have extroverts, you have people who have got 20 years of experience, somebody just out of college, that's diversity I wanna have on my team. You have to have an inclusive environment that understands, embraces, and accentuates and listens to all points of view. - Yes, and that's important and I like, I'm gonna call a little bit of bull (beep) right now right? Diversity of thought and diversity of background is super important, right? So, don't just hire everybody outta the same university, and have diversity of educational experiences, diversity of background, diversity of everything, but don't use that as your excuse. Don't be like, oh, we have our own special brand of diversity. Yes, I'm sure you do, keep trying harder. Keep doing more. - [Brad] It's constant, it's continuous. - If you wanna be like, super capitalistic about it, we find so much research everywhere showing that diversity of background, diversity of thought, diversity of gender, diversity of race, diversity of all the things, leads to better outcomes. - Oh, absolutely. - Customer satisfaction, profit, revenue, all the things. You make better products, you build better software, you get better outcomes. It's worth the investment. - So you go back to 10 years ago, when someone's getting ready to be made a vice president, there was this psychoanalysis that went on, there would be this big book delivered on everybody that was being considered to be vice president. My feedback was Brad doesn't use conflict. What do you mean I don't use conflict? - Oh interesting. - Yeah. And it was interesting, I actually had one of my direct reports, I asked him about it, I said, will you help me understand this? What it came down to is I would race to try to get alignment to move on to the next problem, rather than letting the room ruminate longer on a problem, and let conflict exist in the room longer. That was one of the biggest learnings I had in my career was how to let that happen. 'Cause you get a better outcome, because there's more discussion, there's more debate, and you get a more refined answer. - Okay, I'm gonna circle this back. Because you know what? Conflict, "conflict", everyone thinks conflict's such a dirty word. - Correct, it has a connotation, but does not mean that. - That's the value of diversity. - That's a great way-- - That's where-- - To say it. It's been fun to drive around, we gotta make sure we do this again. - We should. Thanks so much. - Thanks so much Nicole. It's been great. See ya the next time. Next time, on Brad Anderson's Lunch Break. So what's with all the nerve racking, a big keynote, or testifying in front of the Senate? - [John] Probably the Senate. - That's what I would think too. - When you're 15 feet from Hillary Clinton. - Under oath. - Ted Kennedy, it's, it can be somewhat overwhelming. (jaunty music)

Brad Anderson's Lunch Break s7 e1 Jeff Teper, CVP, Office

- [Brad] It's lunchtime, and this is Brad Anderson's lunch break. Two of my favorite things about Microsoft are the smart people that constantly visit campus, and the great fleet of shuttles. Wherever I can, I try to take advantage of both of these things, and grab lunch with some of the tech industry's best and brightest. Today I'm eating out with my good friend, Jeff Teper, the father of SharePoint, and an expert guitarist. (lighthearted music) (piano music) - What, do you have to supplement your income? You're driving the company shuttle now, dude? Did you have to take a test to know how to get from building, one building to the next on campus before they... - I think about, the person I have probably spent the most time with in my 14 years from office, and honestly it's you. - I'm sorry - I can remember back in 2003 when I joined, one of the first things that I did was reach out to you because here, SharePoint was the fastest growing product in the history of Microsoft. So I wanted to reach out to you and yell, "Hey, tell me about Microsoft, how does this all work?" - Yeah I remember that. - I read this article and it talked about Jeff Teper, the father of SharePoint. - Oh god. - What is it like to be the father of SharePoint, and tell me about the frame that you bought to put that article in. - Obviously it's a little bit weird 'cause a ton of people work on the product and I don't know if you know the origin story. There was this product we worked on called Site Server where the product unit managers were me and a couple other guys you might know of, Terry Myerson and Satya Nadella. Well, out of the ashes of that thing it all sort of worked out. And so we took a team and wanted to focus on the intranet, and then there were some existing teams in office you know, the front page team, couple other teams, we sort of eventually brought them all together, re-wrote them in the second version on .net, and that's really when it took off. - [Brad] And I think the one time you actually described this as this great success was born from this great failure. - Yeah, I had the luxury of making quite a few mistakes on that first project, on the Site Server error and that the company was very forgiving. - Hey, so I heard an interesting story about when you went and pitched, was it Bill and Steve on the idea of SharePoint? - Yeah - Tell us about that meeting, did you sleep the night before that? - I sort of really obsessed about can you make the message really simple. And so I had this four box diagram, folks got the strategy. Bill had all sorts of feedback on the technical details. Steve wanted to make sure he got the messaging was super simple. Both of their respective feedback and demanding tone and delivery helped us all along. - Inspiring. - I wouldn't say it's fun, that I would love to relive that meeting, but it was actually good to be pressed on the technical rigger and the simplicity of the Goda Market. - So SharePoint is this incredible way for people to collaborate and share data right? But how good are you at sharing? Tell me about some of these things you'd be able to share on. First one, a water bottle. - With people that I trusted I'd be fine with that. If you're out on a hike with your buddies and they offer you a water bottle you don't rub that off with your sleeve. (laughter) - Okay, next thing. Would you share ear buds? - Yeah, oh absolutely. - Alright, chapstick? - That one is a little tougher. That, I would probably, without the other person looking scrape the top off. (laughter) - I've done that before. How about pants? - If they fit, I wouldn't have a problem with that. - Alright, how about a pizza? Ian and I do this all the time. - Oh yeah, absolutely. - How about a slice of pizza? - With my wife. - [Brad] I defile your feelings. - It would depend on the feelings, and the person. - When you went to name SharePoint what were the other names you considered? - Oh god, we hired a naming firm. We threw, like 20 names on the wall, and some of them were very literal, like Microsoft Content Server. - That sounds like a Microsoft name. - I don't even remember the fanciful names that were sort of made up, fake words. I knew then knowledge management, internet, category was gonna evolve, and if we were too literal like Document Server, it would be too constraining. And when they shared up SharePoint there I thought, "Oh, well that's great!" We're a point where people share information and because we had that whole PowerPoint was one of our best known assets, people would look at that name and say "Oh, of course that's important in Microsoft's product line. "They've named it in a consistent way that one of their core apps" - So was tee-per-nan on that list? Or tee-fer-twank? - Uh no, 'Jeff's Bucket of Docs' was the one that we you know, talked about. (laughter) - [Brad] Next time, on Brad Anderson's Lunch Break. There's a ton of upper level math involved with all that movement. - Yes! Matrix Algebra. I didn't really understand it. I got it correct, my dad fixed a couple of bugs. Our teams fight sometimes, so our users in IT Departments don't have to because we will push each other. - Correct (lighthearted music)